tag:blogger.com,1999:blog-7361443425638782419.post7864459312057526137..comments2023-10-22T16:13:55.130+01:00Comments on My journey to black belt: Block or Flinch in martial arts?Sue Chttp://www.blogger.com/profile/16008609198511182782noreply@blogger.comBlogger15125tag:blogger.com,1999:blog-7361443425638782419.post-4560989726821160162010-08-08T10:56:02.615+01:002010-08-08T10:56:02.615+01:00Hi fishface, I confess - I'm a thinker! I don&...Hi fishface, I confess - I'm a thinker! I don't particularly think about these things whilst I'm actually training, it's just when I'm reflecting on things afterwards. <br /><br />It's more than a year since I wrote this post and my training has progressed a bit since then. My understanding of bunkai and how to approach it has improved and things seem a little more intuitive than they used to - which means I am learning to respond without too much thinking first!<br /><br />Thanks for commenting.Sue Chttps://www.blogger.com/profile/16008609198511182782noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-7361443425638782419.post-3944857404896801022010-08-07T17:06:56.012+01:002010-08-07T17:06:56.012+01:00hi again.
you think too much.
flinch response is...hi again.<br /><br />you think too much.<br /><br />flinch response is a natural reaction to protect the body so dont worry about loosing it.<br /><br />in terms of applied karate this will occur if needed but its the point after this when your karate reactions apply simply by closing the attacker , retaliating or escaping.<br />flinch is built in and taken for granted if you look at your kata bunkai enrtries you will find it you can train it to produce BAR body alarm reaction.<br />i am sure your instructor from recent blogs will explain it to you but to be honest it sounds like you overthink everything :)fishfacehttps://www.blogger.com/profile/02303002711537706291noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-7361443425638782419.post-13899095828710033062010-06-18T15:37:44.253+01:002010-06-18T15:37:44.253+01:00Hi Mark, thanks for joining in the discussion. I&#...Hi Mark, thanks for joining in the discussion. I've heard a lot more about the flinch response since I wrote this post and you're right - we need to learn to work with it rather than try to overcome it. <br /><br />Do you have a blog?Sue Chttps://www.blogger.com/profile/16008609198511182782noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-7361443425638782419.post-62787929124085687052010-06-18T03:37:02.799+01:002010-06-18T03:37:02.799+01:00Sub Level 4 Kenpo uses the flinch response, as wel...Sub Level 4 Kenpo uses the flinch response, as well as the body's natural CORRECT alignments and movements . You cannot overcome a flinch response, and trying is just a waste of training time. Instead use it as part of your intial response to an attack.Marknoreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-7361443425638782419.post-28271988841414191252009-11-23T15:56:41.832+00:002009-11-23T15:56:41.832+00:00Hi Avril. Since I wrote this post I have found out...Hi Avril. Since I wrote this post I have found out that the flinch response is more utilised in martial arts than I had previously realised. <br /><br />I agree that all the pretty and complex stuff is probably no good in real situation but this krav Maga stuff sounds pretty interesting if you're serious about learning effective self-defence. I'm starting to hear a lot more about it.Sue Chttps://www.blogger.com/profile/16008609198511182782noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-7361443425638782419.post-80694350197145646542009-11-23T12:26:51.181+00:002009-11-23T12:26:51.181+00:00Hi Sue
I've trained in an 'eclectic' ...Hi Sue<br /><br />I've trained in an 'eclectic' system which chose to utilise and adapt the human flinch response for defence. It certainly worked for me! Mind you, we spent a lot of time pressure testing self-defence - we found that all the 'pretty' and complex techniques went right out the window.<br /><br />Krav maga also utilises the flinch response.<br /><br />bests<br /><br />AvrilIndomitable Spirithttps://www.blogger.com/profile/12496296877865809486noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-7361443425638782419.post-90595986281548508522009-08-07T14:25:20.529+01:002009-08-07T14:25:20.529+01:00Dan, your comments really help me put things into ...Dan, your comments really help me put things into a bit more perspective. I clearly have a lot to learn! I'm still working out what questions I should be asking. Thanks for your input.<br /><br />Man of the West. I entirely take on board your comment about surviving rather than winning. <br /><br />Funakoshi's advice to women (from Karate-do Kyohan) states "The comparative weakness of a woman in protecting herself from a more powerful opponent must be offset by her quick and especially accurate techniques in attacking the vital points." <br /><br />I think he's basically saying that you only get one shot so get it right. Clearly for you a strike to the solar plexus was a winning move. I don't think this would work for me (my fist is probably half the size of yours) - I need to work out what my winning shot will be. Thanks for sharing your experiences and insights with me - it all adds to my understanding.Sue Chttps://www.blogger.com/profile/16008609198511182782noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-7361443425638782419.post-85892182727015356452009-08-07T13:32:01.823+01:002009-08-07T13:32:01.823+01:00Apparently martial artists don't have a good r...<i>Apparently martial artists don't have a good record at winning street fights...</i><br /><br />Beg to differ, on two counts:<br /><br />1) If what you're interested in is <i>self-defense</i>, quite often, "winning" doesn't really enter the picture. To be successful in self-defense requires only that you leave the area alive and unharmed. The old saying is that the attacker must vanquish; the defender need only survive.<br /><br />2) God knows it's been years since I've been in any "street fights," but on those rare occasions, literally every single one of them ended quickly with me delivering a more-or-less uncontested shot to the solar plexus. Quick, easy, very effective, so my personal experience certainly wouldn't indicate that martial artists have trouble winning these things.<br /><br />In my opinion, most of the stories you hear about martial artists losing fights have more to do with people who've trained in more modern martial sports than in the older systems, or with people who, for some reason, abandoned basic common sense. <br /><br />Just my opinion, worth what you paid for it. :)Man of the Westhttps://www.blogger.com/profile/03691063580228409415noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-7361443425638782419.post-84725613043551880972009-08-07T11:25:24.669+01:002009-08-07T11:25:24.669+01:00Hi Sue
There are several methodological issues in...Hi Sue<br /><br />There are several methodological issues in self-defence training. The one that you opened up was augmenting existing reflexes. <br /><br />Others include: How to train safely (for all involved parties), how to simulate the stress of an assault situation, how to reproduce the element of surprise.<br /><br />Different approaches to training for self-defence make different trade-offs. There's no one answer. ;-)Dan Pragerhttps://www.blogger.com/profile/14234352019207324148noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-7361443425638782419.post-55521231699189365072009-08-07T09:33:22.321+01:002009-08-07T09:33:22.321+01:00Hi Dan,
I don't know the answer to that quest...Hi Dan,<br /> I don't know the answer to that question. I can read about the issues, discuss them and ruminate over them, and I can practice the most pertinant physical techniques such as striking vital points (though finding a male partner willing to be stuck in these tender places is difficult!).<br /><br />However, at the end of the day you don't know what will really work until someone attacks you for real. Apparently martial artists don't have a good record at winning street fights - now why is that?Sue Chttps://www.blogger.com/profile/16008609198511182782noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-7361443425638782419.post-88481796142256448132009-08-06T12:11:02.188+01:002009-08-06T12:11:02.188+01:00Hi Sue:
I think that it's a healthy concern, ...Hi Sue:<br /><br />I think that it's a healthy concern, but don't panic!<br /><br />How can you (safely) explore this issue?Dan Pragerhttps://www.blogger.com/profile/14234352019207324148noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-7361443425638782419.post-74193884999805236972009-08-06T09:13:56.421+01:002009-08-06T09:13:56.421+01:00Hi guys - thanks for your comments. It seems the f...Hi guys - thanks for your comments. It seems the flinch response has been researched and utilised in martial arts much earlier than I realised.<br /><br />I think one of the things that worries me about martial arts training is that it might actually train my innate protective responses ( like flinch response) out of me, rather than building my responses around it. If I rely on developing new motor skills and muscle memory then surely I'll be slower at responding to an attack than if I allow my reflex actions to respond first? <br /><br />I'm thinking about this in relation to an unexpected street attack rather than an artificial sparring scenario.Sue Chttps://www.blogger.com/profile/16008609198511182782noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-7361443425638782419.post-74184456825309864412009-08-06T06:01:50.126+01:002009-08-06T06:01:50.126+01:00Assuming you are evading then I'd like to poin...Assuming you are evading then I'd like to point out that what you say is probably true but if an attacker is already within your striking distance and started to throw a punch without telegraphing - a flinch or block will not be fast enough.<br /><br />I would argue that it is better to train at keeping your distance until you are ready to attack (or be attacked) rather then work on reaction time (that is about the same for everyone).<br /><br />Given a block or flinch - I would go for the flinch as it is closer to my preferred method - covering (while I am concentrating on striking - much like a boxer does).<br /><br />Good explanation of you main points!John W. Zimmerhttp://myselfdefenseblog.comnoreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-7361443425638782419.post-15310112212468394592009-08-06T03:59:47.191+01:002009-08-06T03:59:47.191+01:00Hmmmm. Evade or block? What about moving into yo...Hmmmm. Evade or block? What about moving into your attacker?Man of the Westhttps://www.blogger.com/profile/03691063580228409415noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-7361443425638782419.post-16803847458544851102009-08-05T14:44:01.114+01:002009-08-05T14:44:01.114+01:00Nice.
I've heard of several approaches that b...Nice.<br /><br />I've heard of several approaches that build on natural reactions, of various degrees of antiquity.<br /><br />For example: Feldenkrais in I think 1920s Palestine (this is all off the top of my head, so I suggest substantiating before repeating this)-- well before he learned Judo -- was self-taught in Jiu-Jitsu and taught a group who then got into fights and came off poorly. So he got them to go out and provoke fights and secretly filmed them, noted their initial reactions, and then built there revised training around where to go next after their instinctive reactions. After that, their skirmishes went much better.Dan Pragerhttps://www.blogger.com/profile/14234352019207324148noreply@blogger.com