tag:blogger.com,1999:blog-7361443425638782419.post7192187427698224741..comments2023-10-22T16:13:55.130+01:00Comments on My journey to black belt: Sport kumite – what does it teach you?Sue Chttp://www.blogger.com/profile/16008609198511182782noreply@blogger.comBlogger12125tag:blogger.com,1999:blog-7361443425638782419.post-5170820009775736202014-10-14T06:24:17.517+01:002014-10-14T06:24:17.517+01:00Sport Kumite--What does it Teach?
The global prob...Sport Kumite--What does it Teach?<br /><br />The global problem with "Sport Kumite" is that karate is not a sport.<br /><br />Specifically, sport kumite, as often practiced, has deteriorated from traditional karate kumite, to the use of single strikes with utmost speed. This convention also tends to encourage a lot of bouncing around trying to hit and evade being hit by the opponent.<br /><br />There's nothing wrong with point fighting per se, what's wrong is the convention I've described above when it degenerates into who has the faster reactions.<br /><br />Simply, free sparring is simulated fighting. The fact that there are rules is for safety. the techniques we are permitted to apply should use the same foundational karate skills as any technique in the traditional karate curriculum.<br /><br />I have no conflict between kumite in class and and "sport" arena because principal-wise I fight the same way. I use the same foundational karate skills.<br /><br />In my opinion, karate kumite is more a test than training. I should be well-trained and well-prepared before engaging in kumite. This is the big lesson in how the traditional karate curriculum is structured.Anonymousnoreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-7361443425638782419.post-83544398659662709782013-01-10T07:53:56.284+00:002013-01-10T07:53:56.284+00:00Hi John, thank you for so politely disagreeing wit...Hi John, thank you for so politely disagreeing with me. I can't argue with someone's personal experience of fighting, I'm sure you are correct in what you say. I think that my female perspective of self-defence doesn't include going head-head with a man in a 'fisticuffs' type of fight. I tend to think of scenarios where I am grabbed, pushed or strangled - sport kumite doesn't seem very realistic for these types of scenarios. Sue Chttps://www.blogger.com/profile/16008609198511182782noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-7361443425638782419.post-47312000485620460712013-01-10T07:22:07.705+00:002013-01-10T07:22:07.705+00:00Hi Sue,
I find myself mostly in agreement with yo...Hi Sue,<br /><br />I find myself mostly in agreement with you but would like to politely disagree with your "problems" number 3.<br /><br />"It does not provide an arena for testing out skills and techniques (other than sport karate skills and techniques). It bears no resemblance to how an encounter in real life may pan out, mainly because of the rules designed to maintain the safety of the competitors which means that most of the effective techniques are taken out."<br /><br />It is true that the point karate world of 'being first' to tag or get a point it the main thrust of sport karate (at least point karate) but if one considers what he/she would do in a real self-defense (aka fight in self defense) - the same skills that one has to be great at in sport karate - are the very same one has to employ to be a good selfdefenser (or fighter).<br /><br />[sorry I know you are not comfortable with the usage/meaning of the word 'fight' - but it is all in how you use it - at least here in the USA] <br /><br />Here is my point and I'll use myself as an example. When I started to work the door at a club - I had little fighting experience (other than middle school). At that point I did not have boxing or full contact experiences but just school sparring and tournaments.<br /><br />While it is true that I tended to fight the way I trained - I found sport karate targets to be easy to hit if I was attacked (and I was attacked a lot).<br /><br />The open targets while not including eye rakes and shin kicks - did include the groin, body and head.<br /><br />The other advantage I had is be being first, keeping critical distance and using initial movement I was able to best most of my opponents without ever even getting hit in two years on the door.<br /><br />Ok I will gladly admit all I had to deal with was beer muscle (guys with too much to drink - and though all of a sudden they were a tough guy) but I successfully defended myself against lots of guys twice my size.<br /><br />Had I not has the tourney and school sparring behind me - I would have been untested and not had the confidence to know I was a decent fighter and the angry drunk guys had not idea of what they were doing.<br /><br />By the way after two years of working the door - I quit and vowed to never fight anyone else's battles again and you know what?<br /><br />I have been in no self defense situations in the last 42 years.<br /><br />I do agree that you tend to fight exactly how you train. My point is sport fighting target as well as strategy will easily overcome an untrained person in a fight.<br /><br />I also think one should only fight if attacked. When I worked the door I weighted 160 pounds... most guys I had to escort out of the club were 200 + pounds... and if they attacked me I had to use my self defense skills in the ensuing tussle.<br /><br />Sorry for the long winded response... again I agree with most of your points.John W. Zimmerhttp://myselfdefenseblog.comnoreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-7361443425638782419.post-22485707184384882562013-01-09T15:53:11.706+00:002013-01-09T15:53:11.706+00:00Michele, Happy new year. I couldn't agree more...Michele, Happy new year. I couldn't agree more - the onus should be on the instructor to ensure that students understand the limitations of sport kumite as a means of self-defence.Sue Chttps://www.blogger.com/profile/16008609198511182782noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-7361443425638782419.post-79035788715962803642013-01-08T16:23:04.052+00:002013-01-08T16:23:04.052+00:00Happy New Year!
Excellent analysis Sue. I believe...Happy New Year!<br /><br />Excellent analysis Sue. I believe it is important to discuss the pros/cons/goals of sport kumite with the students. I agree with your comment about the difference between a fighting and self-defense mindset. One of my concerns is for the student who excels at sport kumite in the dojo and believes it guarantees success on the street.Michelehttps://www.blogger.com/profile/04317845403611730397noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-7361443425638782419.post-27109854194485549722013-01-08T07:58:06.313+00:002013-01-08T07:58:06.313+00:00Rick,
I think it's this being in real time t...Rick, <br /><br />I think it's this being in real time that is valuable. There's not many other areas of karate where this is the case.<br /><br />William, <br /><br />A good summary of kumite's value. Thanks<br /><br />Charles,<br /><br />Mind set...so important to get this right :)<br /><br />James,<br /><br />I have a similar attitude to it but I think it also teaches something valuable for self-defence. I suppose one could consider it a form of cross-training perhaps?<br /><br />Brett,<br /><br />Happy new year to you too! I expect your experience of kumite is a little different to mine so it's interesting that you perceive the same pros and cons as me.<br /><br />John,<br /><br />Good advice. As a mature karate student bouncing around too much is not an option - it's just too exhausting! My instructor says to let my opponent come to me and then strike as they approach - it seems to work quite well and I can pick off some of our more energetic youngsters this way. Thanks for your thoughtful comment.<br />Sue Chttps://www.blogger.com/profile/16008609198511182782noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-7361443425638782419.post-64340512863087852142013-01-07T03:15:47.871+00:002013-01-07T03:15:47.871+00:00SueC - you think. A rare commodity in the martial ...SueC - you think. A rare commodity in the martial arts.<br /><br />I've had occassion to consider the different approaches in 'traditional' martial arts and 'fighting'. In particular, the constant motion.<br /><br />It is always a trade-off. By being constantly on the move you are avoiding being struck. Based on the trade-off, you are also sacrificing the ability to strike.<br /><br />A trite example, but an example that may be identifiable. Tom Cruise in The Last Samurai. The scene where he is confronted by three sword-wielding attackers. He didn't go jumping around like the modern day fighter in combat sports. He stood his ground, not with the throught of stability, but mobility. Motion in stillness.<br /><br />This is the way Japanese sword work is taught. Not jumping around. Even Musashi was a critic of 'jumping foot'. <br /><br />Next time you are 'competing', try and apply what you've been taught. Don't distinguish between traditional and competition. Stillness - then explosion. Let your opponent jump around as much as they like, but wait, coiled. Stalk your opponent with slow, small deliberate actions. Don't write off your training.John Coleshttps://www.blogger.com/profile/14634192254115557179noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-7361443425638782419.post-11951618704946758322013-01-04T21:50:26.517+00:002013-01-04T21:50:26.517+00:00Hey Sue. Happy new year!
Con-Kumite:
1. I agree. ...Hey Sue. Happy new year!<br /><br />Con-Kumite:<br />1. I agree. Worse yet is that it nearly eliminates any advantages smaller fighters can exploit (such as joint attacking or vitals). <br /><br />2. I dunno about this one. I haven't experienced any trouble not throwing punches from the hip, like we do in kihon, during kumite. <br /><br />3. Kumite, at best, is a simulator (and often a crude one, at that). But it does provide some aspects of combat effectively.<br /><br /><br />Pro-Kumite<br />1. Agreed. The first fight my wife was ever in was during kumite. You're describing her perfectly here.<br /><br />2. Agreed again. See #2 above.<br /><br />3. This is the keystone, for me. My most important lessons in Full-Contact karate was to keep my stomach tight when blows are coming in - lest I get floored - and how to press forward when my bruises and injuries are begging me to stop.<br /><br />Great post!The Strongest Karatehttp://www.kyokushinblog.comnoreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-7361443425638782419.post-88510816640091424952013-01-04T18:38:26.908+00:002013-01-04T18:38:26.908+00:00Good post, well as you say sport sparring dose hav...Good post, well as you say sport sparring dose have its place but it can perhaps be compared to a game of tag I have always kept the attitude that its fun and no more. I worry that if given too much emphasis one could build improper reflexes that could hamper your instincts in a self defence situation.Anonymoushttps://www.blogger.com/profile/11940072935924060163noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-7361443425638782419.post-32863165273708744602013-01-04T18:00:54.661+00:002013-01-04T18:00:54.661+00:00Mind-set ..... good posting Sue.Mind-set ..... good posting Sue.Charles Jameshttps://www.blogger.com/profile/13812618556413423872noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-7361443425638782419.post-47744832487499239612013-01-04T14:28:01.500+00:002013-01-04T14:28:01.500+00:00I think your summary is excellent. I have found po...I think your summary is excellent. I have found point sparring to be a very valuable tool in learning to "read" a live opponent, in large part because I haven't had a lot of real-world fighting experiences. But it is only one of many teaching tools - it should never be confused for being "the most real". Still, we teach it and use it, and I am grateful for its presence in our curriculum.R. William Ayreshttps://www.blogger.com/profile/01228717107253041752noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-7361443425638782419.post-18714715293172256362013-01-04T14:08:14.615+00:002013-01-04T14:08:14.615+00:00You have to think on your feet in real time under ...You have to think on your feet in real time under pressure. Not the same as an actual self defense situation, but still of value.Rick Matzhttps://www.blogger.com/profile/09699550034693340637noreply@blogger.com