tag:blogger.com,1999:blog-7361443425638782419.post3682698002484247826..comments2023-10-22T16:13:55.130+01:00Comments on My journey to black belt: Some thoughts on stances...Sue Chttp://www.blogger.com/profile/16008609198511182782noreply@blogger.comBlogger18125tag:blogger.com,1999:blog-7361443425638782419.post-5853538038567367462012-11-13T10:13:05.572+00:002012-11-13T10:13:05.572+00:00Thanks Oz - I'll check out your blogThanks Oz - I'll check out your blogSue Chttps://www.blogger.com/profile/16008609198511182782noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-7361443425638782419.post-22721924792475571732012-11-12T15:39:11.361+00:002012-11-12T15:39:11.361+00:00Great Blog my friend, congratulations from:
http:/...Great Blog my friend, congratulations from:<br />http://artesmarcialesdelmundo-oz.blogspot.com/Ozhttps://www.blogger.com/profile/05998599834622000672noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-7361443425638782419.post-89987959261352596922012-11-09T17:16:03.530+00:002012-11-09T17:16:03.530+00:00Journeyman, I'm sure there's no real purpo...Journeyman, I'm sure there's no real purpose to going up and down the dojo in stances in jujitsu, its very much a karate thing. Being able to move quickly and cleanly from stance to stance i.e stance transitions is a really important skill in karate and the leg strength built up by this type of training is really important to enable you to shift your body weight around quickly. Plus going up and down the dojo becomes excruciating after a while so its good for building/testing mental strength too - important if you're into the 'do' aspects of martial arts:-)Sue Chttps://www.blogger.com/profile/16008609198511182782noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-7361443425638782419.post-32219788719111967732012-11-06T18:29:11.665+00:002012-11-06T18:29:11.665+00:00Sue,
When I think deep stances, I think horse sta...Sue,<br /><br />When I think deep stances, I think horse stance, back stance and forward stance. I don't really think of getting low for a throw as a stance, but you're right, it is. A throw is a bit of a misnomer anyway, as it's more like a controlled fall, with you as the thrower being the one controlling your opponent's fall.<br /><br />And some 'classical' styles of Jiu Jitsu do indeed have deeper stances in their techniques. <br /><br />My issue remains with walking up and down the dojo in deep stances. I'm still not one hundred percent sold...<br /><br />Thanks for being so devilish...Journeymanhttps://www.blogger.com/profile/00146093025259375890noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-7361443425638782419.post-43551543128587344982012-11-04T09:59:28.421+00:002012-11-04T09:59:28.421+00:00Journeyman, everyone seems to have a love/hate rel...Journeyman, everyone seems to have a love/hate relationship with stances! In my limited experience of jujitsu whenever I was being taught a throw, especially variations of hip throws and half shoulder throw, I was always being told to bend my knees more and keep my feet closer together. In my opinion this was a 'deep stance'. It seemed to me that deep stances were used a lot in jujitsu or was this just because I was a beginner? Do experienced jujitsuka execute throws with their legs straighter? It seemed to me that the point was to get your weight lower than your opponents centre of gravity if you wanted to throw them so I thought that deep stances were a requirement in jujitsu? However, like I say, I'm a novice in jujitsu - and I'm playing Devil's advocate a bit here as well ;)Sue Chttps://www.blogger.com/profile/16008609198511182782noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-7361443425638782419.post-11531423357102377272012-11-04T03:30:41.952+00:002012-11-04T03:30:41.952+00:00Some good discussion Sue, and I like the new look...Some good discussion Sue, and I like the new look.<br /><br />I've had a love/hate relationship with traditional stance work for quite some time. A bit less love, truth be told.<br /><br />I think there is value in stance work. Who can argue that learning balance, movement and power generation isn't useful. As mentioned, it's also good exercise.<br /><br />My current position on stances? You use a stance in every technique you use. In my own study, I utilize mainly high stances, favoring mobility and flexibility most of the time. Having said that, all the basics of the deep, more traditional stance work still apply, whether we consciously register it or not. In your observation, you mentioned that you'd likely end up crossing your feet if you didn't have the basics down. Very true.<br /><br />Overall, I think stance work has its merits. It was important to note (as it was in comments) the differences between self defense and sparring. <br /><br />My caution with deep stances (and anything practiced over and over) is to not so deeply ingrain the deepness of the stance into the brain so that it becomes automatic. Practicing high and low stances and applying different ones to self defense drills will hopefully provide the balance (no pun intended) needed to prevent an automatic deep stance response when you really needed to get the heck out of Dodge!<br /><br />I enjoyed the discussion, thanks.<br /><br />Journeymanhttps://www.blogger.com/profile/00146093025259375890noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-7361443425638782419.post-38426569190380671242012-11-01T07:50:18.048+00:002012-11-01T07:50:18.048+00:00William,
Sparring is certainly not a realistic m...William, <br /><br />Sparring is certainly not a realistic model of self-defence the way we do it, it's purely a sport. I know that some forms of sparring are a little more realistic than the way we do it but they are still very rule bound and focused on winning rather than escaping.<br /><br />John, <br />Are you planning to write a blog post about stances - an extract from your chapter perhaps?<br />Sue Chttps://www.blogger.com/profile/16008609198511182782noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-7361443425638782419.post-2312105611302314052012-11-01T01:10:07.195+00:002012-11-01T01:10:07.195+00:00Just finished redrafting chapter six: Stance and M...Just finished redrafting chapter six: Stance and Motion. It's interesting reading your blog and the posted comments. It's interesting because my chapter informs on the blog and comments and provides information that better informs the discussion.John Coleshttps://www.blogger.com/profile/14634192254115557179noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-7361443425638782419.post-45714460424031939792012-10-31T15:57:24.819+00:002012-10-31T15:57:24.819+00:00Another useful point (stolen from a better martial...Another useful point (stolen from a better martial artist than I am) - we think of sparring as "more real", but sparring isn't really a realistic model of self-defense. It's not all-out, it has rules. In particular, one of the rules in sparring is NOT to get away - whereas in self defense, that's the primary goal. Watch a few street fight videos on YouTube; for the most part they don't look anything like sparring matches (opponents stalking each other, trading blows in a clash then withdrawing, etc.) I love sparring, but we can't hold it up as the "highest ideal of realism".R. William Ayreshttps://www.blogger.com/profile/01228717107253041752noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-7361443425638782419.post-61615131942453113902012-10-31T08:01:17.385+00:002012-10-31T08:01:17.385+00:00Brett, I can't imagine using deep stances duri...Brett, I can't imagine using deep stances during sparring either but then I wasn't talking about sparring I was talking about self-defence training and in my karate style these are two very different beasts. However, I suspect you give more attention to the stances you use during sparring than you realise otherwise you will be wrong footing yourself all the time.<br /><br />William, there are definitely no short cuts in karate. You can tell people who ignore stance training, they are just clumsy and awkward in their techniques. Sue Chttps://www.blogger.com/profile/16008609198511182782noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-7361443425638782419.post-53530708681624818152012-10-30T20:23:24.002+00:002012-10-30T20:23:24.002+00:00I have read another martial arts blogger describe ...I have read another martial arts blogger describe stances, and kata in general, this way: in a "real fight", you don't do things exactly as you do in kata. You do the same basic things, just "rounded off". But only by doing them "properly" do we teach our muscles what to do when we need to be fast and right. Stances are a training method. People who dismiss them generally think they can find a shortcut - but as any expert in any field will tell you, there are no shortcuts. Master pianists do scales; we do stances!R. William Ayreshttps://www.blogger.com/profile/01228717107253041752noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-7361443425638782419.post-44057818198432986992012-10-30T20:12:10.823+00:002012-10-30T20:12:10.823+00:00I dunno. I am a little torn on the concept of &quo...I dunno. I am a little torn on the concept of "stance practicality". <br /><br />I can agree that they are excellent for muscular training and the burn is great for mental training, too. <br /><br />But I have yet to come across a situation in sparring in which I have "fallen back" into a deep stance, even momentarily, before executing a technique.<br /><br />I hasten to add that I am merely a 6th kyu, though. And I'm not egotistical enough to believe that my experience is the full measure of Karate.<br /><br />Still, good reading Sue. It's always refreshing to read a differing point of view.<br /><br /><br />-BrettThe Strongest Karatehttp://www.kyokushinblog.comnoreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-7361443425638782419.post-65331787342879192852012-10-30T17:52:22.920+00:002012-10-30T17:52:22.920+00:00Rick, I didn't mean you'd need a deep stan...Rick, I didn't mean you'd need a deep stance because your attacker is small! I know you were probably just being facetious but I can think of several scenarios where a deep stance may be required. You have to remember that I think of self-defence scenarios from a female perspective i.e. I think of attacks as being mainly grabs - wrists or bear hugs 'cos they are for women. Some of the escapes I know require big shifts in weight to unbalance an attacker.Sue Chttps://www.blogger.com/profile/16008609198511182782noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-7361443425638782419.post-46459101622036418332012-10-30T17:30:46.080+00:002012-10-30T17:30:46.080+00:00"Charles, a lot of people share your view abo..."Charles, a lot of people share your view about natural vs deep stances but I actually think that deep stances have their place in self-defence too - depends how you're being attacked I suppose. Thank you for your kind comment;) "<br /><br />If attacked by someone that short, I'll use my dwarf-tossing waza.Rick Matzhttps://www.blogger.com/profile/09699550034693340637noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-7361443425638782419.post-51873854385948917562012-10-30T17:29:02.483+00:002012-10-30T17:29:02.483+00:00Rick, stance work SHOULD be a training method - I ...Rick, stance work SHOULD be a training method - I think it can get overlooked sometimes though or its importance not fully appreciated.<br /><br />Charles, a lot of people share your view about natural vs deep stances but I actually think that deep stances have their place in self-defence too - depends how you're being attacked I suppose. Thank you for your kind comment;)Sue Chttps://www.blogger.com/profile/16008609198511182782noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-7361443425638782419.post-13136463394446416202012-10-30T15:11:55.111+00:002012-10-30T15:11:55.111+00:00I do so much enjoy your posts Sue, thanks.I do so much enjoy your posts Sue, thanks.Charles Jameshttps://www.blogger.com/profile/13812618556413423872noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-7361443425638782419.post-41319265015460911542012-10-30T15:10:52.938+00:002012-10-30T15:10:52.938+00:00Stances lead to kamae .... I have witnessed more o...Stances lead to kamae .... I have witnessed more often than not a bypassing of proper stance training and practice for the rapid need to hit the fun stuff .... too bad.<br /><br />I believe stances are to be natural while the deeper stances in fundamentals is more a strengthening posture where at a later stage the assumption of stances for transitional purposes is assumed in a more "natural state" to the body, body type and the individual.<br /><br />It is a natural progression and is too often overlooked as not essential .... assuming that if you can get close your ok ..... not.<br /><br />But then again, I am not a MMA master so what do I know about fighting ..... :-)Charles Jameshttps://www.blogger.com/profile/13812618556413423872noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-7361443425638782419.post-68339064182841169652012-10-30T13:19:53.942+00:002012-10-30T13:19:53.942+00:00Stance work is a training method.Stance work is a training method.Rick Matzhttps://www.blogger.com/profile/09699550034693340637noreply@blogger.com